Is Smoking Pot Immoral? Should it be Illegal?

2009 February 18
by Matt Deaton

At 31, I’ve yet to partake in the ganja. It was ever-present as I came of age, and the peer pressure was often strong and direct. But though I did my share of underage drinking, I always resisted Mary Jane. It was just something I vowed to avoid when I was a kid. Plus, I got some practice doing the Nancy Reagan thing  in jr. high. Actually had one of those cliche’ encounters with a “pusher” at a football game: “Hey kid—wanna buy some weed?” “No,” with a nervous chuckle. “OK—don’t you tell anybody I asked…” That gave me the confidence to say no again and again, and besides—I got my rebellious kicks elsewhere. Once fully into manhood, there were the random drug tests in the Air Force and Air Guard to worry about, or to just use as an excuse when friends offered. “Can’t man, drug test.” I had a brief window of opportunity when I left the military in 2004, but I figured if I’d made it that long, no reason to start. Not that I needed another reason, but with a new son, the role model thing keeps me on the straight and narrow. Whether the fact that I’ve never smoked makes a difference for what I have to say below, you decide. Just thought I’d share in the name of full disclosure. And thank goodness Michael Phelps got caught smoking pot—gives me an excuse to write about it!

First things first, let’s distinguish the legal from the moral. Just because something is legally forbidden doesn’t mean it’s immoral, and just because something is legally allowed doesn’t mean it’s moral. Good law tracks morality, but the two realms are definitely distinct. For example, for a time, interracial marriage was legally forbidden—didn’t make it immoral. And, for a time, slavery was of course legally permissible—didn’t make it moral.

This means that the common argument that smoking pot is wrong because it’s illegal falls short. As members of a fairly (though not fully) just democracy, we all have some moral obligation to abide by democratically enacted laws. But that obligation itself can’t establish the inherent moral permissibility or impermissibility of an act. It can give us a moral reason to obey the law, but it can’t by itself morally condemn smoking pot, any more than it can by itself morally condemn interracial marriage or morally endorse slavery.

So beware of this bad (though common) argument:

Mary: Smoking pot is immoral because it’s illegal.

Jane: But why should it be illegal?

Mary: Because it’s immoral.

Jane: But why do you think it’s immoral?

Mary: Because it’s illegal.

Jane: Dude, you’re killing my buzz. Why is it illegal, again?

Mary needs to provide independent reasons why smoking pot is immoral—she’s essentially saying that it should be illegal because it is illegal, which is of course circular. Do any good arguments exist? Here are some candidates to consider. Smoking pot is immoral because…

Because it’s addictive. Since lots of activities are addictive that nobody but the Mormons think are immoral, this isn’t enough. Activities need to be something more than addictive to be immoral, otherwise blogging is immoral. (And that’s called a reductio ad absurdum, boys and girls.)

Because it’s addictive AND harmful. This is worth exploring, but “harmful” needs to be unpacked. Does pot steal your soul like heroine? No. Does it pickle your liver like booze? No. Does it tend to make you slothful, a little slower upstairs than you would be otherwise, rob you of some degree of motivation? For many users, if we’re honest with ourselves, I think we have to say yes. Everybody knows a “burnout” when they meet one—they’re just a little slower, denser, thicker than the rest of us. Does making yourself dumber and less outgoing than you’d otherwise be constitute harm? Maybe so. Becoming less industrious, less bright, and lazier all seem moves in the wrong direction. But even if this constitutes some degree of harm, the bigger question is, is this enough to render smoking pot immoral? After all, you’re only harming yourself. Indeed, some independent types would say that it’s morally permissible to do whatever you like to yourself (even kill yourself), so long as you don’t hurt anyone else. Since smoking pot only harms the user, they argue, it’s cool. But they neglect those with whom we have relationships—the loved ones our habits can affect. If pot essentially alters who you are, makes you less responsive, more socially withdrawn, more dim-witted, then since all of these factors play into how you interact with others, and probably for the worse, that counts as a form of harm to others. (I can hear the moans and groans already. I didn’t expect to be this negative, I swear! That’s just how it’s working out.) Now, that doesn’t mean it’s harm enough to render the activity immoral—we don’t have an obligation to be maximally good to our loved ones, just adequately good. It just means the issue isn’t as clear cut as some would have us think. I’ve seen how drugs can alter a person’s personality, and I’ve seen those changes hurt relationships. In fact, I’ve seen it lead to suicide twice, which definitely harms those left behind. LOTS of compounding factors pushed the people in question THAT far—and they weren’t just smoking an occasional joint—they were on some really bad stuff. But the point is that substance abuse played a role in harming people other than the abusers themselves. Could weed by itself cause such a momentous collapse? I doubt it. Laziness and dunderheadedness, yeah, but not suicide. But what if it led to drugs that could…

Because though pot itself does only insignificant harm, it’s a gateway to harder drugs that cause great harm. Interpreted as a blanket statement, this is pretty easy to shoot down. EVERYONE who smokes a joint in college doesn’t wind up a crack head. But some people certainly do. What are the numbers? I dunno. But for the sake of argument, say that 15% of those who smoke pot go on to something much harder—something we all agree causes great harm to both the abuser and their loved ones. Is that reason enough to denounce smoking pot itself as immoral? Maybe so. If you recognize that an activity poses a 15% chance of eventually causing great harm to yourself and your loved ones, you probably have a strong moral obligation to abstain from that activity. As the level of harm and the likelihood of it occurring increases, so too does the obligation to abstain. So if a person has a family history of hard substance abuse (which means they’re probably genetically predisposed to become hard substance abusers themselves), are young and irresponsible, are already addicted to cigarettes and liquor, out of respect for themselves and their loved ones, they have a pretty strong moral obligation to stay far, far away from anything that might lead them down that path, including smoking a quick bowl. But on the other hand, a reasonably intelligent adult with impeccable self-control and no family history of abuse and a social support network to identify and head off potential addiction might have a relatively weak obligation to not smoke weed. In fact, it might be clearly morally permissible in some cases. Point is, the risk of abuse and subsequent harm is probably always there, but it comes in differing degrees, which then produces differing obligations in differing degrees.

Conclusions: Those seem to be the strongest points against smoking weed, and after careful analysis, it looks like we can’t make an across-the-board statement that it’s always good or that it’s always bad. As with most moral questions, careful thought leads us to a carefully tailored position. Perhaps all we can say is that smoking pot is more or less immoral depending on the person smoking it and their circumstances (likelihood to move on to harder stuff, frequency of smoking which might exacerbate the negative personality effects, degree of responsibilities to others, etc.). We can say that it almost always causes some personality change, but so do lots of things. I do mixed martial arts once a week, and though it relieves some stress, it probably makes me a little cockier than I’d otherwise be. That makes me more apt to be frank with strangers, to be blunt with students, and to sometimes come across as, well, a bit of a prick (sorry!). That’s a form of harm—I’m more ornery than I’d otherwise be—but I don’t think it’s enough to override the satisfaction I get from physical competition, the increased confidence from knowing how to better defend myself, the camaraderie at the gym, etc. And beyond that, smoking pot probably makes some people better! Artists swear it makes them more creative, and hey, if you need a joint after work to keep from kicking your dog, yelling at your wife and beating your kids, by all means, spark up! You probably need some therapy too, but in the meantime, everybody’s probably better off if you sneak a little smoke. (Surprisingly, a person in this case may even have a moral obligation to smoke…)

Which brings us to our last question—should smoking pot be illegal?

Like most things, it should probably be heavily regulated, but not categorically banned. (Even killing, the worst of all sins, isn’t categorically banned—it’s OK to kill in self-defense.) Especially since that’s how we treat alcohol. From what I’ve read and heard, the socially destructive effects of alcohol are by far greater than those of marijuana. Drunks start fights and drive on the sidewalk. Stoners just play Mario Kart and eat Cheetos. The likelihood of developing an addiction or abusing harder substances is probably comperable, and so too are the personality effects (alcohol kills brain cells too, unfortunately…). If we’re going to allow but regulate alcohol, logical consistency demands that we allow but regulate weed. Plus, legalizing marijuana would do a world of good to stop the escalating violence at the Mexican border. That’s a whole lot of murdering for no good reason. Oh, and think of the jobs Winston-Salem could create with their newly renovated factory! A funky new stimulus package up Obama’s sleeve, perhaps?

So there you go. Smoking weed is immoral to the extent that the person smoking harms themselves and others, and moral to the extent that it benefits themselves and others (on whole), which depends on factors unique to each case. The same could be said of binge eating or drinking beer or even watching college football, all three of which I’ve done to excess to the detriment of others at one time or another (just in case anybody thought I was getting too holier than thou). And given that weed’s probably no more harmful (probably even less harmful) than alcohol, though it should definitely be regulated (forbidden for high-risk hardcore abusers and reserved for competent, responsible, over 21 adults—sorry kids!), it shouldn’t be categorically illegal. But of course, I’ve never smoked it, so what do I know.

42 Comments leave one →
2009 February 19
charlie permalink

good topic mathew, yes it should be illegal. you mentioned many reasons especially due to it being addictive and a gateway to other drugs. my thoughts are, hey lets legalize it, then your next topic is gonna be, hey should lsd or coke be legal. hey matt, lets legalize acid, if you dont abuse it, it will be fine, noooo. right now the potheads are that are addicted to pot and other drugs also are worried about marijuanna being legalized. if it ever made legal, then its going to be boring to them and not as “cool” so therefor lets live life in the fast lane and try something else. its just like working in the jail. we allow cigarettes in the cells to the inmates, okay we where getting marijuanna snuck in left and right. we ban cigarettes so we where not seing much marijuanna snuck in after that, they where to worried about sneaking cigarettes in. so therefor, why make it legal. yes i agree with all of your moral and inmoral talk but sometimes life just sucks.

2009 February 19

alright, full disclosure: it’s been years and years since i’ve taken so much as a toke, but i’ve burned some shrubbery in my day. there. bias. i have it.
for the illegal=immoral argument, anyone past stage one on kohlberg’s model of moral development can see beyond that, which is to say, most adolescents and adults (hopefully). not a good argument for anyone beyond pre-conventional levels of moral reasoning.
concerning addiction and morality, you have the right of it there too, i think. taken down to the base, it is a ridiculous point.
the point of being harmful can be argued, but i think that we should remove the substance from its current “illegal” status in order to better evaluate “harm”. if it were a modern pharmaceutical, available by prescription or over the counter, these would be considered “side effects” and so long as the benefits to users or patients outweigh the side effects or are at least tolerable, the drug is a-ok. following that logic, if i take lipitor to control my cholesterol and it destroys my ability to control my own blood sugar and i develop diabetes (a side effect), is it immoral of me to take lipitor? alright, a cholesterol-reducing drug which keeps me “healthy” might not be the best comparison to weed, how about… prozac? side effects include “problems with balance or coordination, agitation, confusion, sweating, fast heartbeat, headache, confusion, trouble concentrating, hallucinations…” taking prozac to control a mental disorder is immoral because it can be harmful? i don’t think so.
i think i’d argue the same points above about several “harder” drugs, as well, actually. lsd, for one. the prozac argument is actually more relevant with lsd. but i don’t want to get stuck here.
it shouldn’t matter at all what one chooses to put into or take out of one’s own body. period. it shouldn’t concern other people. at all. even if those behaviors lead to the demise of the person, intentional or otherwise.
the only argument i can see is one of harm to others. if the drug use/abuse or other behavior causes harm to others/society unequal to the benefits to the user, that would be unethical. and yes, that can be the case with some illegal drugs – though some of the harm is undoubtedly caused by the substance being illegal.
in fact, i think it could readily be argued that substantial harm is caused to society by the war on drugs.
conclusion: i agree with you for many of the same reasons. weed (and probably several other drugs) should be legalized, regulated and, of course, taxed to high heaven. :)

2009 February 19
Mindy permalink

This was very interesting to me on many levels. One is that Ivy came back from school after DARE class and told me that people who do drugs are bad people. I had to explain to her that everyone who does drugs is not a bad person they just may be making bad choices. She also got confused about what was considered a “drug” I actually had to explain to her that just b/c you take cough syrup for a cough you are not a druggie.
Medicinally, I think that they should branch out and start using it to treat severe anxiety since the meds they put you on have far worse side effects than maryjane. My klonopins throw off my balance, they make me edgy the second they are out of my system, the affect my memory and my response time is now 2 seconds slower than the average individual. These are very scary symptoms and hard to deal with. On the MJ end of it Gee, it really sucks to feel a little stoned.

2009 February 19
david n permalink

Wow, I can remember essay papers in high school and college about this topic but not as logically detailed as this post. I think that, in a way, that the reason why you smoke wacky tabacky determines if it is immoral or moral. There are people who smoke it for the medicinal properties to combat cancer and I see this as moral. Like taking Procrit to make your body produce more red blood cells while doing chemotherapy, smoking pot enables the patient to get nourishment, more willingly to help the body keep up with maintenance. I don’t see many people disagreeing with this unless you’re president of the Dick Cheney fan club. However, if you think it is morale to be an individual, to take the unbeaten path, and you smoke pot to fit in with the crowd or to be cool like everyone else, you just violated your rule. Smoking pot in this instance is immoral. As far as the “harm” issue goes, I agree with everything posted above.

2009 February 19

A further complication to this discussion is not simply the merit or vices of Pot, but its larger industry. One of the largest consequences of the drug trade is not the availability and consumption of pot, but that it funds organized gangs. Biker gangs in particular have benefited from the traffic of “Mary Jane.” So let me suggest a new question: if a product itself was found to be safe but its trade was prohibited by the state, would it be justifiable to break the state’s prohibition? Alternatively, is it justifiable to publicly regulate the trade of a drug one knows to be mildly detrimental to the public in order to eliminate its illegal trade?

2009 February 22

As always, thanks to everyone for taking the time to read and comment. It had been a while since I’d posted anything substantive—really tied up at school. Glad to see some of you were still paying attention.

Charlie: having worked in a jail, you have special experience that the rest of us lack. So we should definitely listen to what you have to say. However, I bet the reason you saw an increase in marijuana inside the jail when you allowed cigarettes, and a decrease when they were banned, wasn’t because inmates were always itching to push the threshold, but rather because weed could be more easily smuggled in. I imagine a family member could unpack a random cigarette, repack it with weed and get it in to their loved one pretty easily, which wouldn’t be the case if cigarettes were banned altogether. Plus, allowing cigarettes also means allowing lighters and maybe even rolling papers. I think there’s something to your point—people sometimes do want to go just one step beyond what’s allowed. But I’m not convinced your example supports it.

Also, you imply a worry that legalized marijuana would quickly lead to legalized heroine. That’s a common complaint, but I think we can distinguish weed, which is apparently about as intoxicating and potentially addictive as alcohol, from heroine and other hard drugs, some of which are incredibly debilitating, addictive, destructive, ect. Though we certainly could go down that slope, since there are clear differences between weed and harder drugs, there’s no reason to think it’s all that slippery.

Lil: You certainly didn’t need a reminder that legal doesn’t = moral and vice versa, but some people certainly did (as I’m sure you realize).

Framing weed as a pharmecutical is useful, but maybe a little too euphemistic. For one, we don’t treat alcohol that way, and second, I’m mainly talking about the ethics of smoking pot as a recreational activity, not as serious therapy. That’s probably enough to kill that particular analogy, but actually, we can examine what I take to be your main point without it. You seem to be endorsing the principle that there’s nothing immoral about harming others by harming oneself.

[you wrote above]: “it shouldn’t matter at all what one chooses to put into or take out of one’s own body. period. it shouldn’t concern other people. at all. even if those behaviors lead to the demise of the person, intentional or otherwise. the only argument i can see is one of harm to others. if the drug use/abuse or other behavior causes harm to others/society unequal to the benefits to the user, that would be unethical.”

I think you should rethink your stance. You’d agree that parents have pretty strong moral obligations to their children that entail staying fit for parenting, right? We frown on all crackheads, but on crackheads with kids more than those without because in harming themselves they’re harming their children. Weed of course isn’t pot, and friends of course aren’t children. And we don’t have obligations to our loved ones to be our absolute best, but only good enough (whatever being a good enough friend, daughter/son, mother/father, wife/husband entails). Thus, the reason I say that in many cases, smoking weed is absolutely fine. (It’s only when you have a propensity to move onto and become addicted to more harmful stuff that it’s not. Or when you’re completely fried.) But just examining that principle out of context, it seems pretty clear that the harm we cause others by harming ourselves is at least morally relevant—something we have to include in any all-things-considered decision about what’s morally right or wrong in a specific case. Being a complete burn-out when you might otherwise be an engaging, lively friend/son/father/whatever does some damage to the counterparts in those relationships, and being dead does even more. And more to the point, if harming others is morally relevant in other contexts (like when you poke them in the eye with a sharp stick), I don’t see why it wouldn’t be relevant in this context as well (when you’re only indirectly causing harm via harm to yourself). I can see why we’d resist it (cramps our personal freedom, which sucks). But I can’t see why we’d dismiss it on principled grounds.

Mindy: Officials tend to blow things so out of proportion that anyone who knows just a little bit better winds up tuning out altogether. I remember cops coming to school and telling us that since weed is an upper and alcohol is a downer (is that even true?), mixing the two is bound to KILL you. Maybe that’s happened somewhere, but I’ve seen people mix the two for years. No deaths yet.

Telling kids that people who use drugs are “bad” is just plain cruel. Those cops know damned well some of those kids’ parents smoke a joint on the weekends, which isn’t any worse than having a few beers on the weekend. One just happens to be illegal, and for apparently no good reason. I know they’re just doing their job, but what makes a person go as far as to try and diminish a child’s view of his or her parents, I don’t understand.

CA is apparently leading the way in medicinal use. I don’t see it spreading too far east anytime soon though. Not sure why though. I’ve argued that it’s morally permissible to smoke for recreational purposes for many people in many circumstances (though not all), so if a person could find some genuine medical benefit, that would clearly be OK.

David: Thanks man! Very glad you jumped in.

Yeah, intent does indeed have some bearing on the ethics of an action. I try to keep all the technical language to myself, but you’re pushing a key feature of Kantian Ethics—that actions are right/wrong depending on the intent of the agent. The antagonists are the Consequentialists, who argue that intent means next to nothing—it’s the consequences an action produces that determine whether it’s right/wrong. (I’ll send you this “Ethics in a Nutshell” essay I made for my students to save space here.) You may be implicitly drawing on a Virtue Ethics perspective though, with some implicit conception of what it means to be true to oneself. Bowing to peer pressure would be unvirtuous, and therefore unethical. That’s of course obvious—just trying to add to it with some philosophical tools.

Liam: Good to hear from you , my 2nd favorite Canadian (I’m a Georges “Rush”St. Pierre fan, I’m afraid)! Excellent questions. I only briefly alluded to this in the article when I mentioned all the murdering on our Mexican border, but it deserves more attention.

When it comes to the violence of the drug trade, three parties are to blame: the buyers, the sellers (as an industry) and the state. Thugs in the industry cause the direct harm—that’s obvious enough. Since they’re usually the one’s instigating the violence, they’re probably most at fault. However, the state comes in a close second. Hard-headed bureaucrats can’t bring themselves to admit there’s no relevant difference between alcohol and weed, and that if we’re going to allow one we ought to allow the other. That would satisfy the hippies, so we’ll just put up with the murdering. And last, even though there’s little wrong with smoking it (for many people anyway—see original post), there can be quite a lot wrong with buying it from the wrong source. If you had good reason to believe the purchase of an otherwise innocuous product would lead to great harm, you’d at the very least have to take that into consideration. (If I knew buying a stick of gum would blow up Manhattan, I shouldn’t buy the freaking gum, despite the permissibility of chewing it.) That said, if you buy local from reputable sources, or if you grow your own, that’s not a factor. But yeah, the violence of the industry itself is something else to keep in mind—one more reason it should be heavily regulated, but legalized.

2009 February 22
Matteson permalink

Hey Matt,

Quite an extensive post. It seems that the most important part of the argument is that we shouldn’t frivolously do things that significantly harm others. I’m on board with that idea.

I just don’t think that weed does these things unless it is used to excess. Since the same is true of Scrabble, it probably ought to be allowed.

If it turns out that a person is harming others through their self-directed actions then they should be dealt with in the same ways that we deal with anyone who harms others.

-Mike

2009 February 23

thought you’d find this interesting: http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_11766760

as for my personal freedoms vs. harming others argument, i think i’m sticking to my story. i don’t think it’s in the best interest of society to tell people what they can and can’t do to themselves. as for those actions harming others, i think we are getting into sociology here – social actions? meh, anyway – every single thing we do affects each person we are connected to and often far beyond. the ramifications are really limitless. ripples in a pond. i understand what you are saying, people make immoral decisions all the time, but i think that personal freedom probably trumps most of the consequences – not all certainly, but most. becoming intoxicated (via any substance) to the point that your ability to care for dependents is impaired, that’s unethical, obviously. but that can currently be achieved through alcohol, which is available to anyone over age legally, and therefore isn’t an argument to keep weed illegal.

2009 February 23

Mike: Yeah, that’s a nice way of saying this article was a little long-winded. No need to sugar coat it–I’m the one breaking my own rules of good writing (clarity, brevity, simplicity, humanity… rules I stole from William Zinsser).

Sounds like we agree. Though I wouldn’t have expected that a couple years ago. All that Rawls and Kantianism finally getting to you? Resistance is futile! [Inside joke made public--Mike's a fellow teaching assistant in the Philosophy Department who did his undergrad at a university big on consequentialism and libertarianism. UT's big on just the opposite--Kantian ethics and Rawlsian liberalism.]

Lill: Shoot yeah [from that article on California's proposed legalization]: “[State legislator] Ammiano said the law, if passed, could generate more than $1.3 billion in much-needed revenue for the state. ‘California has the opportunity to be the first state in the nation to enact a smart, responsible public policy for the control and regulation of marijuana,’ he said.” CA’s all screwed up on guns, but at least they’ve got their act together on weed ;)

Per your elaboration, I think we agree, actually. Personal freedom takes precedence the vast majority of the time, but to the degree that a person has relational obligations (kids, a spouse, loving family, close friends), and to the extent that they’re really screwing themselves up (not just relaxing with a joint or two on the weekends, but hitting it hard, often and sliding towards harder, more damaging stuff), then the balance swings in favor of the ties that bind. That’s all I’m saying, and I think that’s all you’re saying. Agreement–hooray!

2009 February 25
Matteson permalink

No way man. I remain a consequentialist and a Libertarian (although of a particular sort).

I agree with you to the extent that we ought to prevent people from harming other people. That’s one of the functions that a State should serve. It might also be said that a State should try to keep people from harming themselves, but I would say that people should be allowed to harm themselves as long as they’re aware that they are doing so. I doubt that anyone smokes weed (or anything else) with the belief that it’s “good for them” or contains vitamins and such. If someone wants to take an action that is harmful to them in some way they should be allowed to do so. Their actions may be limited to the extent that they harm others. None of that is at odds with my libertarianism or my consequentialism.

At least, I don’t think so. Is it?

2009 March 6
Mindy permalink

you know I remember the same thing happening to me in the 4th grade. During health class they had nurse come in and talk about how bad smoking cigarettes was for you. She had this funny little contraption that you put a lit cigarette in and it pumped the smoke and tar onto a paper lung. They asked all the kids with smoking parents to take one home. In our child minds, our parents were already in the grave if they smoked. I will never forget the look on my mothers face when I showed it to her and feeling so ashamed of myself. The look on her face was not fear, not anger but shame. I made MY mother feel ashamed of herself. I will never forget that moment and how that made me feel to have made my mother have that look in her eyes. Cop’s and “health professional” should think about these things before they send kids home with ” information”. It is no right of theirs to judge whether my mother should or should not feel ashamed or little “Kevin’s” parents should feel guilty for taking their prescriptions or little “pattie’s” parents should feel guilty for smoking a joint after she goes to sleep. ARRRGGGGHHHH! I am sorry! Recalling that memory just made me realize that I was the exact same age that Ivy is now. So that means they are, and have been, sending these messages to 10 year olds for years. At least 18 anyway.
Besides I would rather have every neighbor of mine smoking pot than to have that one guy up the road that got caught cooking and selling meth( who got out of jail in 9 mo and according to the TBI website, he still is in jail). That is my therapeutic rant for today. Thank You.

2009 March 6
Mindy permalink

oh and as far as the hurting others argument, ya ever hear of Paxil? As far as the hurting themselves argument, I fell down the stairs today, someone want to confiscate my stairs and take my walking rights away? Okay, an extreme example but in it’s defense, I tend to fall down the stairs a lot and it is harmful to me, as I found out at 8 mo pregnant when I fractured my tailbone, putting both me and Q in danger.

2009 March 6
Matteson permalink

Mindy,
I thought I was the only person who fell down stairs in their own home! Glad it’s not just me!

Apparently socks and carpeted stairs are a dangerous combo.

-Mike

2009 May 27
Laura permalink

Weed like all other drugs effects your health and social well being. so why is weed illegal? why isnt alcohol or pain pills illegal? we’re taught from a young age that weed is bad and against the law. so this is why some believe it to be immoral. but what makes other mind altering drugs not immoral? I believe if a person wants to do drugs their going to do them, moral, immoral, healthy, unhealthy. whether they continue to smoke weed or move on to harsher drugs is their own free will. some people cant say “no” or its just so much easier saying “yes”. does that make the drug immoral, no, just makes the person easily influenced. televison and movies portray smoking weed as being cool. so why would we believe it to be immoral, if the wonderful world of entertainment tv displays it to be glamorous.

2009 May 27

Hi Laura–welcome to the conversation.

So you make several observations: 1) It’s puzzling why weed’s illegal why alcohol is not; 2) Culture shapes our moral biases; 3) Smoking is a personal decision; 4) Pop entertainment generally glamorizes soft drug use.

Those are all good points. I might add to #2 that while culture and upbringing certainly predisposes our moral lens, almost everyone is capable of revising their morality on reflection. Actually, everyone is probably “capable,” but different people refuse to seriously analyze their personal ethics for different reasons. Some are afraid that their status with friends and family depends on a shared set of values, so they don’t challenge those values, no matter how unsupportable they may be, just for the sake of maintaining those relationships. Some people find their moral biases convenient, since maybe they already dislike someone they deem immoral, or their own behavior is somehow rationalized. Some people’s personal ethics are tied up with their religion, and they’re afraid that thinking too hard about what we ought to do would be blasphemous. And some people are just intellectually lazy.

Moving beyond those barriers probably takes courage, self-confidence, and some innate desire to do the right thing. So I shouldn’t say everyone has it within their power to think about ethical issues with their own mind. Just everyone with a sliver of courage, dignity and goodness ;)

2009 June 11
Ann Thomas permalink

I must say this is a great argument but did you ever think that maybe …..

I do recall there was a time when alcohol was banned from the land of the free (the USA) in the 1920’s, as this ban was going on, people were sneaking around and serving the alcohol illegal much like we do with drugs like weed.

Which brings me to my theory that alcohol was in high demand in those time (1920’s) which became extremely scares, so that meant people paid ridicules amounts of money to get there hands on some moon shine. In the 1920’s guess who were the biggest bootleggers in the country? The Kennedy’s. John F. K. became president did he not? My theory is the government did this ban on alcohol because the rich were getting richer off of it and while the poor were getting drunker. So who is to say that the government is banning the usage of weed because they make a profit off of it, maybe our next president’s family are under ground dope dealers.

Commenting on weed as a gateway drug, alcohol is a gateway to anger, rage, and behavior that can be unruly. Many people react to substance in different ways. Although I have never smoked weed, I know plenty of people who do smoke weed and they function great. But of course there are those who can’t function at all but there can be restrictions to this if it were legal.

People that are rich can only afford harder drugs …so most college student just stick to the gonja. Yes, crack is cheap …but seriously how many college students do you know that actually do crack? And actually stay as a college student; there priorities were not straight to begin with.

2009 October 28
Kenzie Holdway permalink

Smoking pot is not immoral, and yes! it should be legal.

I think marijuana catches a worse reputation than it deserves. I think anyone who has both, smoked pot and drank alcohol, would be willing to say that pot is definitely the safer among the two. (Except of course the occasional person that pot just really messes with for some reason! Maybe it’s allergies?!) Alcohol should be illegal before marijuana. Look at the statistics of drunk driving accidents. Do you hear about marijuana related accidents the way you do accidents involving alcohol? NO. Not to mention as you said Matt, the domestic problems that arise.

I actually think that pot is a topic that many people are not even completely honest with others on for the fear of being criticized. Matt, Perfect example with Michael Phelps. Do you really think he would have EVER publicly admitted smoking pot if not forced too? And, he is still forced to publicly claim it is a bad choice whether he actually feels that way or not, due to his status. I think many of us would actually be surprised to know how many people around us actually smoke marijuana on a regular basis. These people may not participate in other “bad” activity, even drinking. I actually know people that smoke marijuana on a daily basis that function just fine; they get up and go to work, go to school, take care of families, etc., the point is they are fully functional, smart, responsible people. It’s just a great stress relief for many.

If marijuana was to become legal, it may actually decrease the use of other drugs. Who knows the real truth of that, but it would be a hope. Like Matt said it would also reduce violence at our borders. Not to mention the reduction of dealers and the tax dollars that would actually benefit the economy. Chaching! Oh, and don’t forget the growers; someone would have to produce it.

Overall, I take a positive stance on marijuana. I see where people can see negatives about it but, what is their real knowledge and experience with marijuana. It is not for some people. If you don’t like it, don’t smoke it.

By the way Matt..cool website, I’ll have to keep an eye on it!

2009 December 15
sam permalink

no one can prove to me that weed is any more addictive than booze, eating, playing video games, or milking the snake. it depends on the person. some people have addictive personalities. i smoke weed for recreation and medically. i have insomnia. my group of friends that i hangout with have made a goal to never be the burnout stoners and i am happy to say so far so good after 3-5 years of smoking we have learned how to make smoking was more fun. we plan to do stuff and get high before. hiking chief among them. we stay very active and you have to have a reason to be motivated in the first place. its all about keeping things in perspective.

2009 December 16

Welcome to the conversation, Sam. I’d say whether weed is addictive and personally destructive does indeed depend on the person. Meth, on the other hand, seems to be a life killer across the board. But just from anecdotal interviews, pot isn’t any more addictive than alcohol–probably less so than cigarettes. With that in mind, a potential smoker should honestly assess their weaknesses, stay away if it could be a real problem, and in any case take things slow. Don’t want a potential Nobel laureate to turn into Cheech!

From what you’ve said, it sounds like you and your buds do have things in perspective, and so long as you’re being honest with yourselves and not doing anything dangerous, behaving ethically. Keep one another in check though. Take that commitment seriously and don’t be afraid to call someone out if they start slipping–you’d expect the same.

P.S. “milking the snake” — :D

2010 January 9
Justin thomas permalink

Wow awesome article smartly written! As a stoner myself I will keep this article in the forefront of my mind each time I “spark up” is this the only article on this subject you have written?

2010 January 12

Hi, Justin. Welcome.

Thanks–glad you liked it. Yep, only article I’ve written on the ethics of illegal drug use. Surprisingly, this is one of the most popular articles on the site. Most readers land at Socrates Votes via google, and at least a third of the time they’re searching “is smoking pot immoral” or some close variant. I wonder how often portions have wound up in plagiarized term papers :)

Do indeed keep the risks and ethical implications of the negative effects in mind, do whatever you do responsibly, and come back anytime.

2010 January 24
Chris Martin permalink

On whether pot is addictive or personally destructive, a 2007 study in the Lancet found that alcohol and tobacco are far more harmful physically and socially than marijuana, LSD, or ectsasy:

“Development of a rational scale to assess the harm of drugs of potential misuse”
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(07)60464-4/abstract

The abstract available on their website, and you can read the full article after free registration. How Stuff Works shows the ranking they came up with and the multidisciplinary scientific assessment they used to make it:

“Is alcohol more dangerous than ecstasy?”
http://health.howstuffworks.com/health-illness/treatment/medicine/medications/drug-ranking.htm

The long and short of it is, if our drug policy were based on science, marijuana would be legal. And if our drug morals were based on reason, marijuana would not be stigmatized.

“Scientists want new drug rankings”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6474053.stm

2010 March 26
anonymous permalink

OK, what is with all the misinformation that people just spout off without studies. Why do people have to stereotype? Rediculous! I just get so fed up with the nonsense surrounding pot.

1.Non-Addictive(could possible be habit-forming)
2.Not a “Gateway Drug”(People make their own choices)
3.Relaxing and Enlightening(Major Anti-Depressant Properties)
4.Safe(DISCLAIMER)
*5.Getting High is not dangerous.
99.9% of people’s comments I have read online portray getting “high” on marijuana as some kind of evil thing.(as if that’s abusing the drug.) That just doesn’t make sense but they’ve probably never done it before. Getting high is just the feeling of euphoria that you get when you are soooo relaxed. I’m serious, it’s an herb, not a medicine. It can be medicinal, but you shouldn’t need to make up some excuse to be able to use it just for medicine. It’s just like any other plant like carrots or corn.(Sounds unbelievable, but keep in mind that it is impossible to OD on Marijuana) :)

Disclaimer about safe:There are some carcinogens IF you Smoke the pot kind of like how tobacco has carcinogens. (This mainly can cause congestion but not much really.) It’s not going to cause lung cancer or lung disease though.

The absolute SAFEST way you can partake of the pot is either by ingesting it or vaporising it. Vaporising consists of heating up the pot just enough so the THC(active ingredient) evaporates from the cannabis. A common way to do this is with a lightbulb and hollowed out pen through a bottle cap.(not to be mistaken with meth! :)

I’m not saying that it’s a good idea to just sit around all the time and do nothing. That’s just laziness!!! :) But as an intelligent person who has had the pleasant experience, I would highly recommend more people try it! I guarantee you’ll love it. You won’t be addicted, but you will love the way it makes you feel. You’ll be happy. And, best of all, compared to Alcohol, it’s more natural and it is 1 million times better for you!

All I”m saying is be very careful what you believe!! The fact is there have been very little true scientific studies.(Don’t use that against anything though) Innocent until proven guilty.

2010 June 29
Kyhan permalink

Personally, I agree with most of your arguments. Actually, everything you have to say is pretty much on-spot, save for one detail: I believe altering the chemistry of the body in a way that doesn’t promote bringing one’s body to homeostasis (drinking, smoking pot, taking LSD, etc.) is immoral.

I define morality as “the act of mirroring the innate good of one’s essence in their physical and mental state, and doing their best to help the world with such a form, as well as maintaining purity of body and mind (through physical and mental homeostasis).

Pot affects people’s minds. It changes their personalities, which, you have stated. Pot makes people lazy, stupid, and often laugh at things that aren’t really that funny. The laughter is not authentic; it is simulated, it is false, it’s all the chemical. You’re not really having fun, and when you come down, you’ll realize it.

Also, there is the “Good Samaritan” scenario. Ignoring someone in need is just as horrible as harming them yourself–how often do you hear stories of people who are high saving people from being mugged or raped? I would expect if a stoner encountered someone being harmed, they’d just go “Oh shit” or something and move along, despite whether or not they would do anything sober. Though, statistically, most people don’t do anything, but I’d think that there’s less of a chance if the individual is under the influence.

And there’s just the issue of affecting one’s own intelligence. Even if it’s temporary, it’s still harm. WHY the hell would anyone want to make themselves stupider? I have had friends who were pot-stupid all the time while sober! You laugh at that character in movies and TV shows, but when it’s real and constant, and you have to deal with it, it is friggin’ annoying! Especially in serious situations.

Also, there’s some more personal opinion in here. Most people I know and am friendly with have weird-ass senses of humor sober. We’re weird, we’re fun, we have the sense of humor of really stoned guys–and I have been picked on all my life for it. Yet, every single person who ruined my high school life intentionally takes a substance to be more like I am, but with less rationality, less motor skills, and every other side-effect. It makes no sense to me, and it makes me laugh, because I don’t need a substance to have fun like that. I laugh at stupid jokes, I can meditate to relax, I eat weird shit, and, in the blink of an eye, I can drive a friend to the hospital or explain to an authority figure what we are doing on the jungle-gym of the elementary school at 3:00 AM.

2010 September 29

I feel that if everyone had one bowl to smoke, everyone’s opinion would change. They’d feel silly for ever opposing it in the first place.

2010 November 16
Scot permalink

I’d like to say thank you to Matt Deaton for an article that promotes critical thinking of, in my mind, such an important subject. And the fact that you commented on so many others suggestions and questions in a respectable, positive way is quite admirable. Congrats :)

2010 December 29
Ray permalink

Ignorant people like Charile need to actully learn something about marijuana before they judge anyone who’s ever used it. First off coke can kill you one time LSD makes you hallucinate for 12 hours straight it has lasting effects and it has 0% medical value. Weed has no addictive substances in it people are “addicted” to T.V and video games to should that be illegal? Marijuana is scientifically proven to be healthier then alcohol and ciggerettes by far and there is no 100% proof it causes cancer. It’s supposed to be bad for your memory and cause cancer yet they medically prescribe it for cancer patients and people with alheizmers and it has good results. Weed sticks to your cells and once the THC leaves the body it has no real permenant effects on the brain or lungs. Barack Obama smoked marijuana he didn’t do cocaine. The only reason it isnt legal is because the tobacco industry and the government are closely related because the government makes a ton off tobacco and if people knew how bad that truly was for you no one would do that.

2011 February 27
Scott Lalonde permalink

Actually the reason the government doesnt want it to be legal is because pot stimulates the brain and makes people think. The dunderheadedness that Mark talks about comes from the brain using up all its sugar. Blood sugar is what fuels the brain and this is why pot heads get the munchies, they need to replenish that sugar that gets quickly used up from the stimulated brain activity. Most politacal activists, environmentalist etc have smoked it. Most brain washed ignorant people never have.
Go ahead Mark get over your fear and give it a try. You won`t become a reefer madness addict from one toke unless you`re one of the weakest minded persons out there and I don`t think you are.
Also most people who smoke are quite creative free thinkers and they work. The stereoptype that you portray in your essay of pot smokers being lazy dunderheads are probably less than 10% of smokers, and probably closer to 1%. Not only that they may have been lazy unmotivated people to begin with.

2011 March 3
Matt permalink

Good job, Dr. Deaton… for not breaking the prohibition law! This is a very good article from a non-bias person. One thing I wanted to say is that the only experiment that ever concluded (falsely) was an experiment funded by the US Government to see the effects on brain cells after extended use. After 90 days, small monkeys that had been given marijuana smoke ever day were disected and shown to have brain atrophy. This is the only experiment that has ever been cited for MJ killing brain cells, by the Center for a Drug-Free America, the DEA, the FBI, the US Goverment, and so on. What they don’t tell you is that the monkeys were about 30lbs, they were each pumped with the equivalent of 60 joints worth of marijuana smoke for 5 contiuous minutes, unairiated. That means that for 5 full minutes, the monkeys were routeinly smothered everyday for 3 months and given 60 joints of super-high grade marijuana everyday. The cause of brain-cell death is the fact that they were smothered. Brain cells begin to die after 4 minutes without oxygen. This has been the backbone of the “marijuana kills brain-cells” myth, but I challenge you to find an instance when the government adresses this and admits that they were misleading with the data. Any-who! The next thing is that the only reason marijuana could be considered a gateway-drug is the fact that when someone wants to partake of MJ, they have to go to a person who has it, a DRUG-DEALER! The dealer, most likely, has some cocaine and other “funsies” present. The only reason someone would know this guy with the drugs is because they have to to get MJ. Let’s use an analogy of mine. If you go to Wal-Mart for apples, you know what you want, you have no reason or need for anything else at all. Once you get there, you get your apples and then, oh, there’s that new soda: let me have that, and this repeats with other things you had no intention of buying. Remember, you embarked for apples, only, and, now, you have a buggy full of things you really don’t need. I bet if you needed apples and lived near an apple orchard, you’d go there, pick the ones you want, and go back home without having ever spent money on a thing, other than apples. If a person buying MJ has no choice but to get it from a dealer that carries other goodies, the person is buying apples at Wal-Mart. If you legalize it, the person can go to the marijuana store and just get marijuana without having ever even thought of a “harder drug.” I have a small outline I’ve done for a speech I gave about MJ that I’ll send to you, Matt. But please comment on this comment. I’m always looking for a good debate.

2011 March 10

Hi Scott, thanks for joining the conversation. Others have suggested that governments are against certain drugs because they tend to cause citizens to revolt. That’s the popular theory behind the prohibition on LSD. Whether it applies to pot or not, I’m not sure, but it certainly could be part of the equation.

I’ll concede that perhaps you’re right that many can smoke and retain the vast majority of their cognitive faculties. Smoking pot at least seems to make folks a little slower than they’d otherwise be though, and I’ve had people with experience confirm this — say they had to quit because a new career required them to be sharp. But whatever the case, as I conclude in the article, weed in moderation for many people doesn’t seem to be too harmful or unethical, similar to alcohol in moderation. Thanks again for posting!

Hi, Matt! So glad you jumped in here.

The monkey study you cite is interesting. Being a philosopher, I have an aversion to dirtying myself with empirical studies :D But if you say it’s the *only* study to ever link pot to brain damage, and the study suffered serious flaws — well then, we have reason to discredit that link. Maybe it’s the case that dunderheads just tend to gravitate toward weed, and THAT’s why burnouts are burnout — they’d be dense even without pot. I dunno though. As I was telling Scott above, I’ve had people tell me directly that they could tell a difference. I’ve never smoked, but I have drank, and I can tell a difference for days after drinking in my mental sharpness. If weed avoids that, maybe I should be smoking instead of drinking… Whatever the case, I say we just suspend judgment on this point until someone cares enough to research further or provide personal confirmation or denial. Cool?

Really nice gateway analogy with Wal-Mart! Indeed, visiting a drug dealer to buy marijuana might make purchasing harder drugs easier, just like visiting Wally World to purchase apples makes buying Cheetos easier. However, that’s not the only reason pot could lead to harder stuff. For one, once you do something illegal, the taboo is broken. A person could feel emboldened, their inhibitions lowered, no longer worried about being a strict law follower if they were before. Also, given that there seems to be so much misinformation about weed out there, a person might conclude after smoking it that since the scare campaign against pot is all hype, well then — maybe the scare campaign against meth is all hype too!

Of course, none of this settles the issue — I’m just answering your direct point. Thanks so much for the thoughtful post!!

2011 March 10

Oh crap — it looks like I skipped several posts above! I think I’ve already addressed everything said though, so I’ll just take a sec to heartily thank Chris, anonymous, Kyhan, Biased, Scot and Ray. Thanks so much for chiming in, guys and gals! This is by far the most popular article on the blog — glad it could spur so much rational discussion.

2011 November 25
David permalink

I think you are too quick to dismiss the position someone might have that it is immoral to use illegal substances. Th emoral issue could well be framed that there are no objective external sources of moral authority (either Plato’s world of ideal forms or a deity). Morals are. By definition the rules a society agrees to live by. If there is no objective source of moral authority, then the rules we create are the only ones we have to base a moral code on. Our best clues about what the socially accepted moral code for our society we have are the laws we have adopted as a people. Following this line of reasoning, violating those rules (laws) is in fact immoral.

My own personal view has always been that recreational substance use of illegal drugs is immoral, and always wrong. I have consistently disassociated from anyone who did use drugs, and have taught my kids that they should not befriend or associate with anyone who uses them. Am I right? Wrong? There is no objective way to settle this. What I do know is that I will never worry about getting thrown in jail for possession, and that no one can argue that I am failing to uphold the moral code our society has enshrined in law.

2011 November 26

Hi David! Thanks for your thoughts. This blog has been very much neglected, but I do get email alerts when folks post, and am always eager to engage.

Ok, so you’re assuming moral relativism (that ethics is a mere social convention, and determined by a particular culture’s beliefs — that is, whatever a culture believes is right/wrong, actually IS right/wrong… for that culture), and concluding (I think) that the law accurately reflects cultural beliefs, and consequently the culture’s ethics. I think there are at least two reasons why that’s a bad idea.

First, while laws may generally reflect a culture’s values, that’s not always the case.

Second, why defer to popular opinion? Aren’t majorities often wrong? Most everyone in every culture believed the earth was flat for a very long time — didn’t make it true. Similarly, for a time, the culture of the US — or at least the culture in the South — sincerely believed it was morally permissible to own human beings. — didn’t make that true either. And surely that’s false!

It’s clearly logically inconsistent to simultaneously say that one set of persons ought to be free, and another set of persons ought to be bought and sold, simply due to arbitrary differences in skin color. Slavery is unethical because it’s indefensible — it doesn’t treat like cases alike, and doing enough is simply logically inconsistent.

But even if one were to agree to the enslavement of all persons (regardless of color), simply to avoid the logical inconsistency problem above, surely there’s something wrong with preventing autonomous, feeling beings — with all our shared capacities for reasoning and relationships and reflection and the like — from cooperating in voluntary harmony with others like us, according to rules we can all reasonably endorse.

Notice what I’ve done — made a very convincing argument as to why slavery is immoral — without appealing once to popular opinion. Slavery isn’t wrong because people think it’s wrong — people think it’s wrong because it IS wrong (for the reasons cited). Popular cultural belief has nothing to do with it, just like popular cultural belief had nothing to do with the shape of the earth.

Of course, a person could dismiss the above as flowery nonsense, and maintain a hardline anti-moral realist stance, perhaps because I can’t “prove” slavery is wrong like one might “prove” that ice is cold. But I think that person would be hard pressed to accept an extreme case (assuming slavery isn’t extreme enough). Imagine, for instance, a culture who sincerely believed it morally permissible to torture innocent babies for sexual pleasure. Surely no sane person would conclude, “Well, if they sincerely believe it’s alright to torture innocent babies for sexual pleasure, it must actually BE alright to torture innocent babies for sexual pleasure… for them… I suppose.” Clearly, if anything is immoral, THAT is immoral. We can clearly see and know it’s immoral with only a moment’s reflection. Our moral intuition just won’t let us conclude otherwise.

I think sometimes people turn to subjectivism/relativism out of frustration (from an inability to articulate and logically defend a pet view) or in light of so much disagreement over moral matters, with no definitive way to settle such disagreement. But just because something is difficult, and just because people disagree over it, doesn’t mean it must be a matter of mere opinion. For example, proving whether life exists (or doesn’t) beyond the Milky Way may be impossible to settle with certainty (given our current state of technology), and experts in fact disagree which is the case. But notice that this doesn’t make the issue a matter of opinion — doesn’t mean the correct answer is the one the majority happens to hold. For life either exists or doesn’t beyond the Milky Way independent of what the majority of scientists believe (just like the flat/round earth). The same could be true of ethical claims, and given the repugnance of the baby torture example, it appears it is true.

A person who says as much isn’t saying that they hold all the answers. Just that the answers are out there, that they don’t depend on personal or cultural opinion, and that they’re probably worth trying to figure out.

And last, imagine if your favorite food were illegal, but a very similar food were legal. Both foods had the same effects, same harms, same benefits — or at least all were very close in type and degree. If you knew in your heart that there was no principled difference between the banned food that you loved and the allowed food that just wasn’t quite as good, would you throw your hands in the air and say, “Oh well — the majority seems to believe there’s something wrong with the food I love, so I guess I’d better not eat any…” Would you really conclude that eating that food was genuinely “wrong”? Would you choose (and reject) friends based on who ate that food? Would you teach your kids to stay away from persons who ate a little on the side? And would you have a completely different standard for those who ate the (similar in every way but for unexplained reasons) allowed food? Or mighten you discuss the inconsistency with others, petition your legislators to right this indefensible (and silly) wrong, and maybe eventually conclude that there wasn’t much of anything intrinsically special about the law after all?

Just some thoughts. Sometimes tone is hard to convey on the written page, but I type all of the above in a friendly way — just inviting you to reflect — not trying to destroy your view or make what you’ve written look bad. Just talking :)

Thanks so much for posting! I hope you take a sec to reply, and come back anytime.

Matt

2011 November 26
David permalink

Matt

I’m not sure I consider myself a moral relativist. I believe that morals really do exist. I also believe our views on morality do evolve over time. My position is that morality is not an individual matter. The definition of morals is that they are beliefs about what behaviors and actions are considered desirable by a culture. They are not matters of individual taste or opinion. In a democracy, the best indication we have as to what our morals are may be the laws we enact and the legal punishments we devise for undesirable behaviors. Those legal guidelines are often at odds with popular opinion as well, because very often large minorities and possibly even majorities of people dislike or disagree with a law. But if someone breaks it and gets caught, the proscribed penalties are still applied.

The best argument against following a law such as the one allowing slavery, or those that used to systematically deny groups of people civil rights for instance, is the appeal to a higher level morality. Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr. And others are all excellent examples of people who argued that the laws were unjust and needed to be changed. I respect very much people who can help impkrove the morality of a society. What I do not respect are those who believe that since they do not agree with a given law or they think it is silly or worse just inconvenient, they decide simply to ignjore the law or disregard it. Those persons are not trying to improve the morality of the culture, they are just choosing to believe it doesn’t apply to them. That type of subjectivism and relativism is not logically sound, since it violates the most basic tenets of what it means for any society to have a moral code. Any code of morality that has any degree of coherence must apply to everyone in that society.

I suppose for me these discussions about the morality/immorality of recreational drug use always end up rather unsatisfactorily, because at the end of the day people will still believe what they believe and do what they wish to do. As a parent and as a citizen, my decision has been for 35 years to consistenly oppose recreational drug use, and to include pot in that list of substances that I consider unacceptable and therefore immoral. Since the laws are consistent with my position, it seems my position is logical and coherent in this society.

People who want to smoke it are going to do that, regardless of our laws or the fact that the vast majority of people in the US do not want to see it legalized. But morals are at the end of the day not individual, they are beliefs of groups of people. They are standards of conduct, not personal opinions. If someone wants to move the morality of a culture to a new place, they have to work to change the laws, not simply break them. And if they are unable to change the laws, they should logically consider that their personal views may not be moral after all.

2012 June 28
kate permalink

You left out a huge part of the equation, MARIJUANA PRODUCTION AND DISTRIBUTION IS RUN BY CARTELS AND VIOLENCE IS ALWAYS A PART OF ANY LARGE SCALE MARIJUANA GROWING ENTERPRISE. PEOPLE ARE BEING KILLED, POLICE ARE BEING BOUGHT, THEN THE HIGH LEVEL DRUG DEALERS USE disenfranchised young men, and they end up in a cycle of incarceration that can last a lifetime, but just started as delivering “packages” for a middle level dealer. AS LONG AS MARIJUANA IS ILLEGAL, IT WILL REMAIN VIOLENT, AND END UP INCARCERATING LOW-income AND MINORITY MEN DISPROPORTIONATELY. AND ANYONE WHO PURCHASES MARIJUANA FROM THIS SYSTEM IS SUPPOSTING THE SYSTEM THAT KEEPS VIOLENT CARTELS IN BUSINESS, AND GUNS ON THE STREETS OF OUR CITIES TO PROTECT THE ILLEGAL, BUT PROFITABLE ENTERPRISE. ….YOU CAN’T JUDGE MARIJUANA OUTSIDE OF THE SYSTEM WITHIN WHICH IT EXISTS. I DON’T SMOKE; I’m not pro legalization, but unless you are growing and smoking your own, you are supporting a violent system which kills and takes lives through incarceration.

2012 June 30

Hi Kate,

Welcome to the site! Thanks so much for taking the time to comment.

Actually, I mentioned the link between illegal drug purchases and the violence to which it contributes in the original article in passing, and then elaborated in a reply to a comment by Liam back on Feb 22, 2009. You can scroll up to see that entire post, but here’s the relevant portion for your convenience:

“Liam: Good to hear from you , my 2nd favorite Canadian (I’m a Georges “Rush”St. Pierre fan, I’m afraid)! Excellent questions. I only briefly alluded to this in the article when I mentioned all the murdering on our Mexican border, but it deserves more attention.

When it comes to the violence of the drug trade, three parties are to blame: the buyers, the sellers (as an industry) and the state. Thugs in the industry cause the direct harm—that’s obvious enough. Since they’re usually the one’s instigating the violence, they’re probably most at fault. However, the state comes in a close second. Hard-headed bureaucrats can’t bring themselves to admit there’s no relevant difference between alcohol and weed, and that if we’re going to allow one we ought to allow the other. That would satisfy the hippies, so we’ll just put up with the murdering. And last, even though there’s little wrong with smoking it (for many people anyway—see original post), there can be quite a lot wrong with buying it from the wrong source. If you had good reason to believe the purchase of an otherwise innocuous product would lead to great harm, you’d at the very least have to take that into consideration. (If I knew buying a stick of gum would blow up Manhattan, I shouldn’t buy the freaking gum, despite the permissibility of chewing it.) That said, if you buy local from reputable sources, or if you grow your own, that’s not a factor. But yeah, the violence of the industry itself is something else to keep in mind—one more reason it should be heavily regulated, but legalized.”

So there ya go! Grow your own, buy from a local producer, or bear some responsibility for the violence your purchases encourage. And in the meantime, work to legalize and regulate. Thanks again for commenting!

Matt

2012 August 7
Anonymous permalink

I have been diagnoised with bipolar when I was 17 I use to take tons of medication for it and all it did was make me really out of it, like I seriously could not function. Also I’ve held a job pay my bills made good grades never been in trouble with the law and I smoke. It helps me with my anger instead of fighting with people of senseless stuff or getting angry or sad about something stupid I just laugh and think of how silly it is to get mad over something simple. I always smoke only at home I never go to work high go out high or drive a car when I’m high. I sit around and spend a good time with my family watching movies playing games swimming playing angry birds and I have a good time and I’m 10x more social than I normally am. I can carry on a conversation with someone whereas when I don’t smoke that’s hard for me. So honestly smoking for me really does help. I think it should be legal if you think about it no matter if it’s legal or not people still abuse it. However, that’s with any drug really Xanax, tabs, OxyContin, alcohol. So saying that it’s bad for you and how the side affects are so bad for you is just stupid. Every drug that thr FDA allows to go through has side affects. And a lot of the medicines have the same side affects like slow response sleepiness change in behavior. My point is this pot can really help people it’s not bad just people think its bad because it’s illegal. Like I mentioned earlier no Matter if it was legal or not your still going to have people who choose to smoke and than do careless stuff like drive. Thr pot doesn’t make them drive just like the alchol doesn’t. So those who chose to do careless shit while under the influence of any drug legal or illegal isn’t because of the substance it’s because they chose to do it point blank.

2012 September 8
Anonymous permalink

Dear Matt, Weed is not addictive, not harmful, and it’s not a gateway drug. Only 1 in 10 people who smoke weed do other drugs. people make bad choices to do some other drug but that’s not mary jane’s fault. It’s their lives.

2012 September 8
Anonymous permalink

And I’m so pleased with your blog — really appreciate your long, thoughtful posts. I was drawn to your site because one of your pics was on my google images and I saw the preview of your article. So glad I visited — thanks!

2012 September 8

Dear Anonymous,

Thanks for visiting! And thanks for your thoughtful, respectful comments. I genuinely appreciate mature adults like yourself who are interested in discussing issues like this in an intelligent way.

If you read my post again, I think you’ll see that I don’t argue that marijuana is addictive or a gateway drug in all circumstances. Instead, I argue that smoking it is morally impermissible to the extent that the person in question is apt to go on to do harder drugs, or apt to have their personality changed in a way that would negatively impact their loved ones.

I don’t think it’s controversial to say that those things sometimes happen. In fact, I’ve witnessed it firsthand, and I suspect that you have too.

Anyway, thanks for visiting! And may you always retain your positive, encouraging attitude.

Matt

2012 December 5

people should stop smokeing because there loseing there mind big time i say this because i use too smoke and the next day i forgot what i did yesrday so yeah dumm poeple should stop smokeing stop and i loney 15

2012 December 17
Zack permalink

I have always found this to be a very interesting topic. If we are being 100% honest I smoke everyday and I am only a year away from getting an engeneering degree. In regards to making someone lazy and less outgoing it is all in the mind set. If you let it make you lazy and less outgoing it will. Some of the most successful people in the world have smoked weed each and everyday. Take Steve Jobs for example he use to smoke a joint each and every night, yet he was able to bring Apple to the place it is today.
As for the additive and harmful part, they have shown that maijuana is one of the least additive substances that an average human being will cosume. Scientist have discovered that Mary Jane is less additive than coffee, a substance than most americans comsume everyday. The most additive substances in the country are Cigarrets and Achool(these are also the top killers in the country). Both of these substances kill more americans every year than weed has ever considered killing. I challenge anyone to find a death directly related to smoking to much weed, in order to over does on weed you would have to smoke your body weight of weed in under a minute. That is physically impossible, you would fall asleep before you could finish.
Now on to the gateway theory, most people who smoke marijuana must go through a drug dealer in order to obtain any, and since there isnt a lot of money to be made with selling weed many dealers will also sell cocane and other hard substances. So the illegalization makes the gateway theory true because dealers are likely going to try and make people try harder addicive substances so people will spend more money.
Marijuana will always be viewed as immoral and wrong until americans put there foot down and say enough is enough. If you are really interested in the truth of marijuana hop on netflix and watch the movie The Union: the business behind getting high, its a very interesting documentary that will enlighten anyone who has ever had their doubts on the topic.

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